They are dead.

May 19, 2009

A lot of blogs have already posted this. I’m just doing my part in helping the spread. This is a sermon clip from John Piper.

And in case you’ve forgotten, our mainline churches still use money from tithes in order to fund the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC), a major lobbying group in Washington. And don’t miss the irony that these are the self-styled prophets of the Church.

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10 Responses to “They are dead.”

  1. mshedden said

    While I accept that Piper is more nuanced than the religious right where is his video for ending torture? This is not to say I am not pro-life but I think the movement is best off when it is committed to nonviolence and a consistent ethic of life. Piper doesn’t seem to committed to either.

    • kepha said

      This is not to say I am not pro-life but I think the movement is best off when it is committed to nonviolence and a consistent ethic of life.

      I don’t know Rev. Piper’s position on this issue, but as a general statement about many pro-lifers is, I think, very good. I very much agree with it. Just like a Christian should not “save” someone if they’re not going to disciple them, nor should a Christian save a baby from abortion if they aren’t going to help raise them (in some meaningful way).

      • The evangelical involvement in both crisis pregnancy centers and adoption advocacy has been quite large, including major leaders (e.g. Jerry Falwell) and music artists (e.g. Steven Curtis Chapman). I’m not trying to gloss over deficiencies and areas for greater improvement (especially at the level of rhetoric), but we should give credit where credit is due.

    • Mike said

      I agree it would be desirable to have a consistent ethic of life that addresses other areas, such as interrogation, capital punishment, etc. I’m not sure I’ve got that completely figured out for myself, yet.

      I’m against torture, but I must confess it’s difficult to get really worked up over Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the architect of the mass murder of 3,000 civilians on 9/11 who cut off Daniel Pearl’s head with a dull knife. As it is, the US has changed its policy, so it would seem best to just move on. The efforts by the Democrats to pay out the previous administration seem to have more to do with evening scores than a noble search for truth and justice.

      With the assasination of Tiller in Kansas last Sunday, I noted that Salon.com had an article calling for the waterboarding of apparently any number of abortion critics. That article has now been pulled. Equally regrettable are certain Christian blog sites reaction as well to Tiller’s death.

      I’m still processing all of this. – Mike Cheek

  2. I’m not enough of a Piper aficionado to know if he has dealt with war and/or torture before. Perhaps he has. At the least, he’s never come across like a “culture warrior” (a la D. James Kennedy).

    I would suggest that “nonviolence” isn’t something that he deals with, at a person to person level, as a pastor in Minneapolis. But when friends of church members get pregnant, or when the member herself gets pregnant, and knowing that abortion is affecting the lives of your neighbors and the average Jill at the grocery store — then the immediacy and gravity of this particular life issue is readily known. And in addition to the obvious loss of life, the psychological and moral consequences for the women are immense. That doesn’t justify the lack of broader engagement with war, and just means therein, but it does give a measure of practical justification.

    • mshedden said

      I don’t really want to focus on tearing down Piper or dragging this conversation out but Piper’s country (my country) is at war. The fact that the average citizen is sheltered from this reality so that the country becomes remains supportive might be worth talking about. As well as the fact that his church is large enough that people in the environment are being compelled to serve and most likely are serving overseas. Those seem like practical issues to me.

  3. kepha said

    Very cool video and awesome words.

  4. kepha said

    I’m not trying to gloss over deficiencies and areas for greater improvement (especially at the level of rhetoric), but we should give credit where credit is due.

    Indeed. In my own hometown there is an old Baptist adoption center. One time my priest even said in one of his homilies something like, “Why are the Baptists the only ones with an adoption agency?!”

  5. D said

    This version cuts off Pipers full exposition before the personal portion, where he goes for Obamas throat about Obamas daughters. See it all to digest the context.

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